http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/03/03/teacher.bush.ap/index.html

So now it has to be "fair and balanced"?

This kind of crap only flows one way. How many teachers get in trouble for supporting the Bush Administration?

I listened to the tape, and I listened to the heavily edited portions the neocon talk radio hosts played to fit their agenda.

Think about this: what other country has had students report their teachers to the authorities for speaking out against the government? We won't even worry about the illegal secret recording at this point.

Remember a time when people that spoke out against the government, like Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, et al, were called "patriots?"

I think it's disgusting to think about that Colorado roadapple in the same context as Paine, Jefferson, Adams and some of the other patriots. Anyone of which would probably have had the dingy high school teacher tarred and feathered.

And you don't see the problem with you reasoning right sard?

As long as everybody thinks like you and belives in the same things as you everything is fine. Anyone with any difenent ideas are screwballs or what was that oh yes roadapples.

We call that a narrow point of view.

If everybody thought like you back when Thomas Jefferson was alive we would still be ruled by England.

sardonicus is all drunk on the kool-aid....his posts show that he knows nothing about history every time he ventures beyond a link or cut and paste......keep drinking the kool aid sardonicus.....jim jones and geroge bush are coming to save you and take you to heaven while the liberal meek inherit the earth..

Hell lupo, Here I thought your burst of civility was real and not just a spark in the dark. The liberal meek. Ha. the street rioters, the stab you in the back in the name of peace,niks. History indeed, you can't even get the usage right let alone history. And from what ged factory did you acquire your diploma? Lord, let there be light.
Bw when you want to see detail in the dark do you use a flood or a spot light? And you equate loyalists with conservatives? Silly

Not hardly Sard. I make a point you're not capable of comprehending.

You are the consument neocon, "he who dosn't think like me is just wrong". What you don't seem to realize is that in this country it's not only our right, but our duty to critize and question our government. And I want our teachers to put questions in the heads our our students. We need to make them think. After all they will be the countries leaders in the future and they should be prepared.

That's called education. What you seem to want is indoctrination.

I may be wrong, but from what I read the teacher was not suspended due to his Anti-Bush views, or comments. But because he was not allowing any opinions that differed from his to be heard in the class.
So if it was a true class room type discussion/debate, then he should have allowed for both view points to be heard/discussed, not just his own. But I think suspending the teacher was a bit harsh

gv said it. Go ahead and carve up the Bush administration, there is ample cause.

But you'd better allow an opposing viewpoint to be given as well.

Anything else isn't teaching, it's preaching.

Since I wasn't there to hear whether opposing opinions weren't allowed, or were allowed but debunked, then I'll reserve judgement on all parties involved.........for now.

WE will never know for sure what all was said. Could it be that a student started this and the teacher WAS giving the other point of view.

About 20 minutes of the class was recorded. Not all of it. So what was said earlier? If a student made a comment about how great the war in Iraq has been going, could the teachers comments have BEEN the other point of view?

The point teachers should not be made afraid to teach.

Maybe the 20 minutes recorded was the entire debate. I mean it was a high school geography class, how much time would you expect to be allowed during a geography class to be spent debating the state of the union address. Seems a little off subject for this teacher/class.

It wasn't really that off topic. The discussion was about how different countries came about. Given that, politics plays heavily in that discussion. After the student had his questions answered you can hear him fumbling around in his pocket to turn off the recorder. But before that, the teacher had started the day's lesson on globalization; another politically laden subject.

Hi Bw, it's fun talking to a Mensa Society charter member. I do have trouble with thought so esoteric. However, I wish you would spell correctly, it sets a bad example for us plebes when you butcher the language. It would seem you know less about "neocons" than you do about the inner workings of your navel, lint and all.
It is your duty to be aware of what your government is doing and it is your duty to vote and not be one of the apathetic ones. The duty to criticize only qualifies you for the socialist at large club.
Teachers should teach. It is good. However, they should check their soapboxes in the school entry.

Thanks for the info GH, it starts to make a little more sense, and maybe a little more understandable. But from what I was able to read, and a few of the interviews I saw, I still believe that some of the teachers statements are not what I would want one of my daughters teachers saying to her in school.

Sard if you want to start picking on spelling be sure you never misspell something here yourself. I normally get on here at work and have limited time.

So to you someone being a member on Mensa would be a bad thing? Kind of like saying education is bad.

Pretty much takes care of any credibility you may have had with me. When I was in school I always wanted to hear the other point of view. Even if it was an unpopular one. It helps build curiosity, don't suppose you know what that is.

Here is a question for you, and no I don't know the answer because I have not had time to hear the tape. Did the teacher just throw out the opposing point of view, or did he also support it?

By the way if you chose to answer this I will expect to see the quote that proves it.


By the way Sard, there are a few people here who know me and are aware that I dummie up my posts kind of on purpose. :p

Sard, can you name a famous person who was a notoriously poor speller?

I will give you a hint A E

Lets test your powers of deduction.

Too easy Bw. He was also alleged to have big trouble balancing his check book. Of course he did have an excuse for his spelling foibles. English was not his first language. Sorry if I intrude into your work discretionary time.
I offften mish pell wurds, although I sometimes look em up when in doubt, especially 4+ syllables. LoL, So original, "dummy up on purpose". That must be some form of noblesse oblige I guess. By the way I have no problem with the Mensa Society per se. Just folks that expound in a matter that would lead one to believe their position is gospel rather than personal opinion or political dogma.

Kind of like you calling him a road apple? I never expounded in any manner (hope that's what you meant)that would lead a person to believe my positon was anything other than an opinion. I did ask a question which you haven't answered yet or perhaps you just did'nt see it.

"I dummie things up" for my own reasons, from what I've read of your writtings you would not want to try following my normal work.

And he wasn't very good in his own language either. Done with this.

Sardonicus, you said, "Just folks that expound in a matter that would lead one to believe their position is gospel rather than personal opinion or political dogma."

Please allow me to be the first to say - Hello, Pot - meet the kettle!

Here are the teacher's comments:

http://www.comcast.net/news/national/index.jsp?cat=DOMESTIC&fn=/2006/03/07/340114.html

According to him he trying to get the kids to think on their own. We can't have that can we?

Kind of what I thought. 20 minuets recorded out of a 50 min out of a 50 min lecture.

I agree nothing wrong with making kids think, but I still say just throwing out his own opinion was not the best way to do that. He could have easily made those statements as questions (what if's). And I doubt the kids in the class are being graded on how well they can remember the teachers opinions, but being graded on what thier text books say. I have a daughter and I know for a fact that if one of her teachers was throwing out opions like that, I would have some concerns about him/her. He was getting paid to teach, and not simply use his alloted time as his personal soap box. I may not run to the school board, but I would for sure ask for some sort of conference with him. And I cant find any links that state what the topic of the day was scheduled to be,, so I really dont see where this debate had anything to do with geography, it sounded like he was bringing up situations that involved almost every area of the world at one time or another.
But in all fairness, when I read the transcript it sounded like the kid had plenty of chances to speak his own opions, and that the teacher responded to them in a proper manner.

Darn eddie, how do you always come up with something so unique and original? Amazing.

Bw. my calling someone a name, especially here, puts me in lock step with the quorum. btw I believe I had a choice on answering your query. Since I have no intention of researching the issue, you will get no answer.

Sardonicus, we all do what we can!!!

A hypothetical question: If the teacher had been expressing strong pro-Bush opinions, everything else the same (student recording it,etc.), would he/should he have been busted?

I was reading some quotes from one of his former students "he didn't even use the standard American history textbook because he said that it was corrupt. It was created by rich American businessmen who didn't want to teach the real American history..." because they were interested in still having slaves and oppressing women." Now I dont know if this is true, maybe just a ex-student looking for some revenge, but if it is true, then certainly not the type I would want teaching my kid.
And to Answer SS's question, I dont believe this would be a national news item, if it was not for his Anti-Bush statements. But as I said before, on a local level, if these comments/statements/teaching style was being practiced by my daughters teachers, I would be asking alot of questions. But that just me, and my opinion.

"my calling someone a name, especially here, puts me in lock step with the quorum"

Bush apologist, self apologist! It is a mindless approach, but if it works for you...

Dosn't put you in lock step with me.

Interesting how a person who has touted his education here bows out of a subject that requires some research. Guess I expected too much from you.......

I saw an interview with the teacher yesterday. This kid and his parents went straight to a conservative talk radio station. They did not complain to the teacher or the school. Sounds like a neocon family raising hitler youth to me.

gvbest,
The teacher is right. History is written by the conquerers. How long were we taught that Columbus discovered America?
All he did was navigate wrong and ran into a place already occupied. Now he has a holiday set aside for him.
Also, I applaud you as a parent that stays in touch with what is being taught their kids, but don't take everything taught as the ultimate truth. Text books are picked out by people with their own agendas.

I am encouraged Bw. Your sad face has some question marks above it. ergo you admit to not being omniscient. Join the club. Life is full of little disappointments eh?
Btw at what mind challenging occupation do you labor to earn your daily bread? My curiosity is always percolating. Can't help it.
YOu did notice I said "lock step with the quorum" that doesn't single you out. Truth be told I haven't seen you resort to some of trash mouth tactics employed by other denizens. Again, not all.

I am part of a design team specilizing in medical equipment. More specificly, for stressed infant births. I work in electronics and can write code in 3 computer languages.

I will not bore you with the degrees and certs I have.

Do a search for Cool Cap if you wish.

interesting, I used to do a bit of code generation in the Rockwell 6500 series of uPs. Basic an Fortran in it's day were also modes of instruction. Was employed by an R and D group. Moonlighted repairing E-tech and Hitachi Electron microscopes. Thanks for the response. it's always interesting to know a little about the person on the handle of the other epee.

BW, medical is the happening place to be. I'm a SW Engineer working on a health care system for the NHS in the UK and some in the US as well.